Everyone please welcome Emilia Ray to Continued Conversations! Emilia directed my short film A Broadway Body and is an influential voice in the body image conversation as an actor, director, and intimacy director/coordinator. We began discussing body image in musical theatre back in 2021 and haven’t stopped since. I’m so excited to share our conversation with you because Em’s perspective is culture-shifting.
The work Emilia is doing empowers actors to advocate for themselves on set, on stage, and in performance settings in order to feel safe and supported in their work. I can first-hand say her work on set is deeply powerful, and I cannot wait for her upcoming Intimacy For Actors workshops to hit the Los Angeles community!
We kick off the conversation by diving into a discussion of being first-time filmmakers when we produced “A Broadway Body” and how it felt to tell that particular fictional story. We then dive into many other topics pertaining to bodies and the arts. Our full conversation is in the audio clip above while a snippet of that conversation is below for you to read :)
“We were talking about all the different things that our bodies do. If we can look at it that way instead of picking apart and trying to change, which is so often what we're taught to do by the beauty standard industry, and instead go, ‘No, my body is the thing that keeps me safe. My body is the thing that takes care of me. My body is the thing that gives me pleasure. My body is the thing that helps me enjoy life in so many different capacities and it's so informative and it makes me smarter and softer and stronger and kinder and all of these things,’ then ideally, we can also shift our mindset in terms of, ‘So what does it matter if you're a size this or this?’ When it's just so much more than that.”
- Emilia Ray
Emilia Ray: It's just so normalized too in that industry, which is why the teacher scene in that film was so interesting to me because I remember having one-on-one teacher interactions where it was normal and expected that a teacher, somebody in a position of power, many years older than you, who you look at often as a mentor, or something, with regard, somebody in that level of power and it is normal for them to be able to comment and criticize your body. Like that is their job.
Megan Gill: Right? Like, that is just what comes along with being in a musical theater program. It's almost like that's part of the BFA: you act, sing, dance, and get your body criticized. Like, why is that how it has to be? And it's such this big question for me of I don't have the answer, and I don't think we'll ever have the answer, but we need to talk about it, because, god, yeah, our bodies are such a part of our work, which is why I just love that you are now doing the intimacy work that you're doing because it is so important to protect our bodies within this work.
But then it's like, okay, well, yeah, physically how we look impacts the work we do in the world, the opportunities we get to do the work in the world. It impacts so much and it's like, well, god, it just feels like this big conglomerate, like a question mark, crazy, swirly, I don't even know how to explain it. It's still very confusing to me and it's still hard for me to think about because I'm like, how do we change the way it's always been done? How do we move the conversation away from, “You, your body looks this way, but it should look this way.” Like, how do we get rid of that and still – where am I going with this?
Emilia Ray: Right. Well, no, I –
Megan Gill: This is my question. I’m like, “Huh?”
Emilia Ray: How do we? I don't know. I mean, and then part of me is like it's such a contradictory thing because part of me feels like we need to talk about it. We need to have conversations and be able to have this kind of stuff, and I truly believe that. And then another part of me is like, stop talking about people's bodies.
Megan Gill: I'm right there with you!
Emilia Ray: You know what I mean? It's their business and how does it affect you or change you or anything along those lines? Take care of yourself, however, whatever that means to you, end of list.
Megan Gill: God, I’m so with you on that. Even when I said, “Oh, your hair is so beautiful, per usual,” I catch myself thinking, “Do I need to comment on how beautiful your hair is?”
Emilia Ray: Yes. I’m just kidding. [Laughs]
Megan Gill: I'm thinking, well, yes, because that is such a lovely – you know, it's maybe your soul's beautiful. That's the ultimate comment or remark that you could offer somebody, but it's so interesting the way I find myself being like, wow, why am I commenting on your looks? I know it's very normalized, and I know that it is a compliment. But it just has me thinking and questioning, you know?
Emilia Ray: Yeah. Well, and I do, I feel like, even this idea – I'm thinking about this – I was on TikTok and it's like this kindergarten teacher and she's teaching the kids if they can't change it in, you know, three minutes or whatever – I don't remember the timeframe she used, but like 15 minutes, then don't comment on it. So yes, you can tell your friend, “Your pants are unzipped,” and they can fix that, but you don't need to mention something about their body or their hair or something like that, that they can't change.
And so, then I think in terms of positive stuff, and it's like, oh, I can compliment, “I love your sweater,” or “I love your eyeshadow today,” or things like that. But then to be like, “Wow, your body looks great in this,” or “That really accentuates your curves,” or even something as spicy and fun and normalized between certain friends, like, “That makes your butt look really good,” like, these kinds of things, sometimes we do love to hear that, and yet, should we really be commenting on that stuff?
Because it's also in the weight conversation, which a lot of that's coming up with the Ariana Grande stuff and all of these things. We're talking about commenting on people's weight, and you have no idea what somebody has been through, what they're going through, why they're the weight that they are, how they feel about the weight that they are. So just commenting on people's bodies in general, it's just such a sensitive thing. And I just think that we have to be careful and conscious, just like we're all trying to be in so many different capacities in the last several years. I think there's just a lot more awareness around the power of language and the things that we say, and I think that that needs to be in regards to bodies as well.
Megan Gill: Absolutely. Yeah, 100%, and it's interesting because what came up for me in terms of even the Ariana Grande thing was I wrote a Substack piece offering my thoughts on Wicked. (God, I loved it.) But I was coming up against, gosh, these two actors who are so incredible and just so phenomenal, over the top, no words. But at the end of the day, they both are – Ariana's very petite. Cynthia is just a smaller woman. And it's like, god, I don't feel right commenting on the size of their bodies. Yet at the same time, the opportunity for a woman in a larger body was just not there, and why is that?
And my question, I guess, is more so on why. Is it society? Is it the producers? Is it just because, you know, historically smaller bodies are just more “widely accepted,” and it was such an interesting roadblock to come up against because I'm like, “I don't feel comfortable commenting on this,” yet this is a conversation that I think needs to be had not that we need to have that conversation. But it really made me think.
Emilia Ray: Yeah, and especially on film, I think. Movie musicals have really shown kind of time and again that smaller bodies or the preference on screen. But then, yeah, you don't want to ever take away somebody's talent by pointing out, “Oh, you got this role instead of somebody else.”
So it's tricky because it's happened to me multiple times where when I've seen a Broadway production, I've seen representation of different bodies in roles, and then they make that same show into a film and that hasn't translated. And yeah, it does sometimes feel like a missed opportunity, but then, you know, you don't want to take anything away from anybody. It's just always about representation and variety, and I just want to see onscreen and in stories and storytelling mediums such as plays, musicals, films, TV shows, I want a reflection of the world that we actually live in. And I feel like we are very privileged to live in Los Angeles where it's just a huge variety of human beings who live in this state and in this city, and I see people of all different walks of life who come from all different places in the world. And so, that's what I want to see onscreen, and then obviously that includes body types.
Megan Gill: Yeah.
Emilia Ray: That's what I want to see.
Megan Gill: Totally. Yeah, same and it's very funny – not funny, but it's so cool to be at a Broadway show – what did I see, Great Gatsby this past April, and the ensemble was pretty diverse. And it was so cool to just see different body types in an ensemble on Broadway. I'm just like – oh god, I got chills because I'm like, “Thank you! Thank you.” This is a step in the right direction. This is the stuff I’m talking about.
Emilia Ray: Yeah, and it is happening, and it is moving. We were just talking about moving and slow moving and how that can be frustrating because we want fast moving and we just want everything to be fixed and better because that would be nice. But I do see it, and I've seen it on Broadway. You're 100% right. I've seen more representation in a lot of different productions. Wasn't there that incredible Tony's performance of Cabaret with Eddie Redmayne? And it was the same thing, the ensemble was so beautifully diverse, and I was obsessed. I don't remember, was that West End or Broadway? Either way, maybe it wasn't the Tony's. I don't know, I saw the clip when I died. [Laughs]
But yeah, so I can see it. I can see it happening to a certain extent, but it's slow. Even the intimacy stuff. It's been such a fun journey to be a part of it kind of from towards the beginning, but obviously there are people who have been, you know, really working in the industry at a high level for a long time, but the public awareness of this job has only been around for a couple of years, and that's the same amount of time that I've been doing the work. So most of my conversations when I'm meeting people and talking about it are, “What is that?” And I get to explain it, which is my favorite thing to do because I like to talk about it.
But yeah, it's the same thing where it's slow moving, moving towards an industry where intimacy coordination and the awareness that actors need to have somebody there to advocate for them specifically in those moments is happening, and it's because of bodily autonomy. It's because of a million things like power dynamics, all of those things kind of come into play. But almost all of my work goes back to body in so many different capacities, whether it's, like, “What are your boundaries in terms of your body?” You know, “How are you feeling in terms of your body?” So many of my questions are just like, “What's going on? What are you feeling? And, you know, encouraging actors to speak towards, you know, “My heart's racing,” or “This is tightening,” or “I feel weird here,” or “This moment feels strange,” or “I feel like my hand would go here instead of here.” And I'm like, “Great, let's follow that. Let's talk about it,” these kinds of things.
So much goes back to body as well and the awareness of our bodies up to even talking about storyline stuff where I'm going, you know, we know as actors, when we're in intimate scenes that are scripted and written, that this is fiction and that we are professionals, but our bodies don't always know that. And so, that's something that I'm there to help actors navigate so that they can regulate after they're in particularly heightened moments and need to come back to their own bodies and remind themselves who they are and get into their own skin and all of these things, and we're shaking and we're stretching and we're doing all of these things. So much of my work, I've realized, is about bodies.
Megan Gill: I just love that so much, and it's so important because I think when we were growing up, I was so, as a performer and a person, disconnected from my body. And I think that this education around learning to trust our bodies, allowing our bodies to gain our brains’ trust and vice versa with the work of coming in and out of the scene and coming back to our bodies and learning to trust our gut feelings and listen to our bodies, this is so important. For actors, yes, but also for humans, right?
Emilia Ray: Yes! Right because we talk about these responses, right? These flight, fight, freeze, fawn, all these responses, those are body responses, they're not necessarily just happening in your brain. Something else is telling you, “This is bringing something up for me. This is shifting something in me.”
So I do think that there's been a bit of a narrative shift that we can't control everything just based on our brains. When, you know, you think in terms of anxiety or panic attacks or some of these different things that happen in our bodies, somebody gets too close to our personal space and we have these reactions. And I just think it's more in the conversation to know, “Okay, let's follow that. Let's check out your nervous system. Let's see, do you need physical touch? Do you need space? Do you need texture?” Like, what is it that you need in a physical way to bring you back to a “healthy mindset”? Yeah, so I think it just all goes back to that.
Megan Gill: And I think that, ultimately speaking, something that I personally want for the world of performers and for younger generations of performers that are on their way to the professional world and even the collegiate world and beyond is to have the tools and understanding of how to take care of their bodies in this healthy way and how to not disregard their bodies when they're getting a hunger cue. Like, “I'm hungry”
Emilia Ray: Mm-hmm. So eat, babe!
Megan Gill: Or, “I need rest,” or “I don't feel comfortable in this scene because XYZ,” and learning to listen to that, because I think that, personally, from my experience, I disregarded a lot of those cues for so long. And how cool is it that hopefully we can, in the work you're doing, we can all work collectively to get this information down to younger people so that they don't have to suffer in the ways that we had to suffer. And it's just like, ah, it makes me emotional because I'm like this is the movement. This is so freaking cool!
Emilia Ray: Yeah, I think that's the other thing that you and I are so aligned on too, is the impact on young people. I would love to work in intimacy work for anybody and anything. But if you were to say, “Pick a specialty,” it would be those coming-of-age stories, because I love working with young actors, and I want to be around young people, and ideally, the life dream and life goal would be to help them navigate this growing-up process in a way where they can feel empowered and safe and all of these things at times I wasn't, and at times I was, but I'm still thinking about the people who helped empower me and I'm grateful to them, and if I could do that for somebody else, whether it's one person or fifty, that's the best thing ever! And I can look back and go, “Cool!”
Megan Gill: Yeah, it’s true transformative work.
Emilia Ray: Yeah. Yeah, but I'm going back, there was something else that came up. Oh, just like thinking about how, you know, we were talking about all the different things that our bodies do and having that awareness, and yet we're so quick to criticize them versus be so honored that we have that capacity, and if we can look at it that way, instead of, you know, picking apart and trying to change, which is so often what we're taught to do just by the beauty standard industry, but instead go, “No, my body is the thing that keeps me safe. My body is the thing that takes care of me. My body is the thing that gives me pleasure. My body is the thing that helps me enjoy life in so many different capacities, and it's so informative, and it makes me smarter and softer and stronger and kinder and all of these things,” then, ideally, we can also shift our mindset in terms of, “Okay, so what does it matter if you're a size this or this?” When it's just so much bigger than that.
Megan Gill: Right. Right.
Emilia Ray: Yeah, just bringing it back to specifically body stuff, that's just what that brought up, because I'm just like, oh my gosh, I'm literally talking about how we're these powerful entities of bodies, and yet we're like, “Yeah, but this is –,” you know?
Megan Gill: Right? Like, “Ugh, I don't like this thing.”
Emilia Ray: Yeah, “My stretch marks.” Like, okay?
Megan Gill: Right! That is literally – I love the phrase, “Your body's the least interesting thing about you.” I think that's the phrase.
Emilia Ray: Yeah.
Megan Gill: Because it's, like, yeah, the way you look is fun sometimes, like we were just chatting about.
Emilia Ray: Artistic expression.
Megan Gill: I love fashion and doing my hair and my makeup sometimes, but also those days that I'm maybe feeling kind of, “Ugh,” remembering, god, who cares? That is so uninteresting. What about the cool things I'm going to do today, or the people that I'm going to have amazing conversations with and the emotions I'm going to feel? Like, oh my god!
Something that's been coming up for me lately is I am just – we are similar. Big feelers over here. I feel frickin’ everything, and it's just instead of beating myself up for, “Oh gosh, I got sad about that,” or “I was disappointed about that.” It's like, “Oh, how cool that I have the capacity to, one, feel these emotions and process them through my body in a healthy way. Speaking of doing things with a healthy mindset, I think shifting the narrative is, yeah, really, really important for that health point as well, for keeping ourselves healthy and mentally well.
Emilia Ray: Yeah. Yeah. So much of it is just in our heads, too. Even trying to shift the mindset to a positive regard for all things and for all people is something that I feel like I'm always working towards because thinking in terms of actors, right? I can go, “An actor is putting themselves out there. They're risking something because they love it, because they want to be doing it.” And so, no matter what maybe a judgment might be on how good or bad an actor is, right, I can have positive regard and think that they are incredible pretty much no matter what. Whether you're in a fifth grade play or you're Ariana Grande killing it Wicked, I think you're incredible. And there's something about that. That's a mindset shift. It's just having this awareness that because you're doing this, you’re incredible at it kind of thing.
Megan Gill: It's like moving away from the criticism –
Emilia Ray: Yeah, moving away from the criticism.
Megan Gill: – which I think starts with us, right?
Emilia Ray: Yes.
Megan Gill: If we stop criticizing ourselves and the way that we look and the way that we do certain things or XYZ – and granted, criticism different than having self-awareness – then we start to shift the way that we see other people and other situations outside of us too, which oh my gosh, and I’m just like how beautiful.
Emilia Ray: And I remember years ago redoing my socials because I was getting into, you know, the body positive and then eventually more the body neutrality and having all of those kinds of conversations and thinking about those things and trying to come to terms with my own stuff, and I started to follow different accounts, and I just was seeing more representation of different bodies on my screen every day versus what I tended to do, which I actually don't think is the worst thing either, where I would follow curvy, blonde girls because that's what I am to see myself. And there's something lovely and healthy about that too, where I could see myself on screen and in a beautiful, sometimes sexualized way, in a way that I wanted to see myself and go, “Oh, cool. That's wonderful.”
But then when I started to broaden that horizon and see bodies of all shapes and sizes and colors and communities and all of these things, I think in real life I can just see beauty everywhere in a way that maybe I wasn't raised to just culturally and societally, you know what I mean? You're not raised to see beauty everywhere, and I think that it's a mindset shift and choice that you can kind of look around and just go like, “Hey, everyone's so pretty! I just think everyone's pretty all the time!”
Megan Gill: I'm kind of right there with you, and I think it also comes back to just being able – not everyone can see the beauty all around them, and I spent a long time with people that did not choose to see the beautiful things, the beauty in the small things.
Emilia Ray: The beauty of a flower in LA.
Megan Gill: Yes, exactly. Exactly, and the tiniest, little thing that seems so trivial and silly. And it's like, oh gosh, why would we not want to see that? Especially in other people. Why would we not want to look at other people and see the beauty in them, whether it's radiating from inside or something on the outside. And it's just so interesting. I feel like it just does go back to, in a sense, the commenting thing. It's like, well, if it's something that you find beautiful about them and it's a physical thing, maybe let them know, because also maybe you don't know what they're struggling with on their own. I don't know, makes me think, okay, let's just be discerning.
Emilia Ray: Yes. Obviously, yes. Be careful. But no, you're right. There is something lovely about that. There are these people also – it seems like I'm on TikTok a lot. I promise I'm not. I have a life outside of that. But I am thinking about there's these women who go around in a car and shout compliments at people. Have you seen this?
Megan Gill: No, I'm obsessed.
Emilia Ray: And they're literally just like, “Hey!” And they'll yell at somebody, and they’ll look all alarmed, and then they're just like, “You look beautiful today!” You're stunning!”
Megan Gill: I love!
Emilia Ray: They just yell compliments at all of these different people coming into the grocery store and just living their lives, and the way that you see people just light up and just go, “Oh, thank you so much.” It's so sweet. It just makes me cry. I'm just weeping on my phone watching these just compliment videos. And I get that it's a gimmick, and I get that it's online, but also I like to believe because I just see the cheesy best in people that the people doing that also are getting something out of it and really love it, and then the people on the receiving end are having a better day because of it, and it’s just really cool!
Megan Gill: Oh, it’s so cool! I would like to believe that as well. Yeah, and also doesn't it make you feel good, when you genuinely see something in someone, to let them know?
Emilia Ray: Yeah. Yeah!
Megan Gill: Even if it's someone you don't know, I feel like it's sometimes even cooler to be like, “Hey, by the way…” This girl in my yoga class this morning was like – I wore the biggest, comfiest, oversized sweatshirt to class, and she was like, “I love that sweatshirt. What brand is it?” And, I don't know, it was like, “Oh, thank you!” Even her comment on my article of clothing was like, “Oh, thanks. Oh!”
Emilia Ray: It's a way to bond with people and just see the – no, I do like that.
Megan Gill: Right? Oh, you'll have to send me that account because I'm dying to witness.
Emilia Ray: The next time it pops up I’ll send it to you.
Megan Gill: Please do, I need to follow.
Emilia Ray: It’s so sweet!
Megan Gill: We need more of that too, you know? Ugh, gosh.
Emilia Ray: Yeah. Yeah. I think in general, acknowledging people's presence and saying kind things to them. I mean, you and I do that to each other all the time because that’s who we are. But it’s not always normalized, and I was even reminded I went home for the holidays, and it's not normalized all the time that people are going, “I really appreciate you. You're really wonderful to be around,” and I get that it's cheesy, and I get that this is LA girls in their 30s talking over coffee. I understand –
Megan Gill: We’re our own breed. [Laughs]
Emilia Ray: – that we're kind of walking stereotypes, and yet what's the harm? There is none. That's so lovely. That's so good.
Even the studio that we met at, it's normalized in our culture that when somebody finishes a scene, everybody's just like, “Great work tonight! Oh my gosh, I loved your scene. Great work. Great work. Beautiful work.” That didn't happen in college or in high school or, honestly, in professional settings.
Megan Gill: No. It was always criticism.
Emilia Ray: I feel like I will go up to people when I'm done working with them, whether it's intimacy work or otherwise, and just be like, “You did great work today,” and they look at me like I'm an alien because people are just not used to receiving that from another adult human being, especially without an expectation of something back. And these are observations, and they're true, and I feel, exactly what you said, why wouldn't I want to tell you?
“It's just always about representation and variety, and I just want to see on screen and in stories and storytelling mediums such as plays, musicals, films, TV shows, a reflection of the world that we actually live in.”
- Emilia Ray
Emilia Ray is an LA-based Intimacy professional, Director, and Actor originally from Gilbert, AZ. She moved to LA shortly after receiving my BFA in Acting and Musical Theatre from The University of Northern Colorado. A few years ago, she fell in love with Intimacy Work and is a SAG-certified Intimacy coordinator, having received training with CINTIMA, IDC, and Heartland Intimacy, as well as on-set and on-stage experience. It has always felt like a combination of my strengths and everything I really care about.
As a director, she’s most proud of my short “A Broadway Body.” The themes of body dysmorphia, disordered eating, and, ultimately, self-love led to the film's recognition at the LA International Shorts Festival, the Atlanta Women’s Film Festival, and many more. Acting is her first love, and some of her favorite roles include Una in David Harrower’s “Blackbird,” Honey in “Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf,” and Elaine in “Arsenic and Old Lace.”
Website: www.emiliaraycreative.com
Email: emiliaray143@gmail.com
Instagram: @emiliaray143
Keep an eye out for upcoming Intimacy For Actors Workshops Emilia be teaching - stay tuned!
While I’m not a licensed therapist, registered dietician, or medical health professional and cannot speak to body image topics from a clinical, trauma-informed place, I am an expert of lived experience. I’m an academic of my own body, and I’m passionate about facilitating conversations with other humans about their relationships with their bodies. I believe it’s important to continue conversations about healthy body image in creative spaces as a means to heal individuals as well as the collective whole. But just know the information presented in this medium is not professional mental health advice or medical advice, and any questions or concerns you have should always be directed to your health providers.
